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I was wondering if anyone has heard of any legends or theories about looking into mirrors and seeing things, particularly at night. I had a mirror on my headboard for years and would see many different things in the middle of the night, most of which I believe to have been ghosts. Through the mirror. I finally got rid of it.
Ever since I was a child I would avoid looking into mirrors at night and still do to this day. I have to cover my dresser mirror at night now with a sheet or I can't sleep. And if the sheet falls off, I will wake up.
I have noticed in old movies and whatnot that throughout history people would "retire" mirrors at night, and cover them. But why? Nothing i look up really gives any real answers....
Does anyone have any ideas or heard of anything pertaining tho this????
Ever since I was a child I would avoid looking into mirrors at night and still do to this day. I have to cover my dresser mirror at night now with a sheet or I can't sleep. And if the sheet falls off, I will wake up.
I have noticed in old movies and whatnot that throughout history people would "retire" mirrors at night, and cover them. But why? Nothing i look up really gives any real answers....
Does anyone have any ideas or heard of anything pertaining tho this????
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Las Vegas
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Re: Mirrors
Mon, May 25, 2009 - 6:13 PMWhen I married my first husband, the photographer photographed me from behind, looking in a mirror at my parents house. When we got the pictures, there was someone standing behind me, n the mirrors image. Other things took place there, but I never really thought much about them. My mom destroyed the picture, with no explaination.
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Re: Mirrors
Mon, May 25, 2009 - 6:14 PMMirrors are gateways or portals to other dimensions. I had a girlfriend who had a mirror that was her grandmothers abnd for years when she looked in it she saw another world, one of vampires. As she got older into her late 20's early 30's she ans her friend, did a clearing on the mirror, and got rid of it. There have been people who use their mirrors for scrying, when they do this it can bring in entitys and they can harbor there. Or use them to cast spells, is another way to bring spirits into mirrors.
To protect and clean the mirror you now have smudge it down with sage, and Rub rabbit fur on the mirror while smudging. See if this works. Also smudge your bed, on top and underneath befor you go to sleep.
This should help -
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Re: Mirrors
Mon, May 25, 2009 - 6:32 PMWow. That vampire thing is creeeeepy! Thank God I never saw THAT! My mirror was also pretty old.
I would wake up suddenly from a dead sleep and look into the mirror immediately, before i even had a chance to think about it, it's like it would be calling me and i would see an injured person, one was a teenage boy who very obviously had a broken neck, other times it would just be random people walking past in the hallway, missing limbs, or i would only see half a body, the rest would be blurry. Sometimes they would be looking right at me, other times they wouldn't seem to notice.
I'm well aware that during sleep or waking your mind can play tricks on you, so i would put my head down, wait a couple seconds, make sure i was fully awake, then look again, and sure enough it was. But when i would turn around and look without the mirror, nothing was ever there.
Thank you for your suggestions and sharing your experiences!!! I appreciate anything i can get, it has been such an issue with me since i can remember, even with new mirrors, and everyone thinks i'm nuts!!!!! but i know there's something about them., just not enough info...
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Re: Mirrors
Mon, May 25, 2009 - 6:48 PM"Scrying" is an ancient form of clarvoyance using reflective surfaces like crystal balls, a pan of water or a mirror. I discovered I could do this when I shower in the dark and face the mirror. Try this technique with your eyes closed. You may encounter moving images or still frame pictures. A wolf spirit guide revealed itself to me recently using this technique. If you see a head or a face when scrying it is supposed to be self reflection. You can ask spirits to show you things but always remember to be respectful.
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Re: Mirrors
Tue, May 26, 2009 - 8:41 AMGreat topic. I don’t like going into the bathroom when its dark because of the mirrors. Different time of my life I have felt things in them and began to see things there, but when I did I quickly turned away and reached for the light as fast as I could. I am not scared of the dark except when there are mirrors. I never really thought there were any kinds of legends or history behind it. -
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Re: Mirrors
Tue, May 26, 2009 - 9:12 AMAll of which is predicated on the human mind's ability to fool itself. Want to solve the mirror mystery? Watch them being mass produced. -
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Re: Mirrors
Tue, May 26, 2009 - 9:40 AMLOL! Chris, I do the same exact thing! But I am afraid of the dark if i'm home alone. I keep night lights everywhere. It's not like I can't be in the dark (except when there is a mirror) but it's just much more comforting with the night lights.
I absolutely refuse to look in the mirror in the dark i will divert my eyes. On a couple of occasions I have tried to muster up the courage to face my fear and make myself look, but i get such a skin crawling feeling from it.....
And Mickey.... I will try that. Thank you! -
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Re: Mirrors
Tue, May 26, 2009 - 11:04 AM"I absolutely refuse to look in the mirror in the dark i will divert my eyes."
I know what you mean but then that darn peripheral vision will kick in if I am not careful. HAHA!
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Re: Mirrors
Tue, May 26, 2009 - 10:20 AMSo again some interesting stories but it does beg the question:
Where is the research? -
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Re: Mirrors
Tue, May 26, 2009 - 10:56 AMThere is tons of research regarding global warming yet the debate among scientist goes on.
Decades of research and still the scientific communities do not agree on E=MC2 and still remains unproven.
Then there are Christians and all the worlds religions.
And I can spend a lifetime pouring over the research on whether coffee is good or bad for me. Pun intended. LOL
Research is good but you will still conclude what you want too. Do I need to provide research to prove that last statement? -
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Re: Mirrors
Tue, May 26, 2009 - 11:17 AM< Research is good but you will still conclude what you want too. Do I need to provide research to prove that last statement? >
So then, what? You don't do the research? Because your conclusions are all foregone?
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Re: Mirrors
Tue, May 26, 2009 - 12:02 PMI'll ask this again:
So then, what? You don't do the research? Because your conclusions are all foregone?
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Re: Mirrors
Tue, May 26, 2009 - 1:04 PM< Research is good but you will still conclude what you want too. Do I need to provide research to prove that last statement? >
Third time asking:
So then, what? You don't do the research? Because your conclusions are all foregone?
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Re: Mirrors
Tue, May 26, 2009 - 11:24 AM>There is tons of research regarding global warming yet the debate among scientist goes on.
Decades of research and still the scientific communities do not agree on E=MC2 and still remains unproven.
Then there are Christians and all the worlds religions.
And I can spend a lifetime pouring over the research on whether coffee is good or bad for me. Pun intended. LOL
Research is good but you will still conclude what you want too. Do I need to provide research to prove that last statement?<
Just to note:
This entire post is a classic straw man argument.
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Re: Mirrors
Tue, May 26, 2009 - 10:48 AMBut whose mind is fooling whose? I express a legitimate experience of mine, which your mind can not comprehend. And why not? Because you did not experience it personally. So because you did not experience it your mind needs to pass value on it. So your mind fools you into believing what you need it to believe regarding my experience. But that is just the nature of the mind. -
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Re: Mirrors
Tue, May 26, 2009 - 10:56 AMI don't think it's a question of one mind vs another. I think one's own mind does the fooling. My own experience is subjectively interpreted. The real question is: Can the experience stand up to unbiased, external scrutiny? The trouble with that is, people don't like being told that what they experienced is not the thing they thought it was. -
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Re: Mirrors
Tue, May 26, 2009 - 11:17 AMTrust me Mickey, at the time, and for a long time afterward I would have LOVED to have been able to believe that i was seeing things.
In fact, that is what I told myself and made myself believe at the time, so that i could calm down, because it was terrifying. But I would keep looking, then take breaks and tell myself i'm seeing things in the dark, you know like how when your a kid and you think the coat draped over the chair looks like a monster. But, every time I would look back up it would be undeniable, what i was seeing, but only through the mirror..... It would literally blow my mind... for years I had MAJOR issues with falling asleep at night, mostly because of it.
I have had my fair share of my mind playing tricks on me and will admit it in a heartbeat. In this case, I would have to believe I was crazy.... and i'm not, by the way, in case you were wondering right then.
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Re: Mirrors
Tue, May 26, 2009 - 11:22 AMWell you are in for a big challenge if you are trying to get an unbiased opinion about peoples experiences and feelings. They are not things you can bring in for clinical trials. Benjamin Franklin was able to channel electricity but was never able to prove his faith in Jesus Christ. Nor will you ever be able to get an unbiased view to prove or disprove that there is more to mirrors than their physical materials.
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Re: Mirrors
Tue, May 26, 2009 - 11:29 AM>Benjamin Franklin was able to channel electricity but was never able to prove his faith in Jesus Christ.<
So why is it that those with weak arguments try to invoke in our founding fathers a level of faith they did not have?
"About March 1, 1790, [Franklin] wrote the following in a letter to Ezra Stiles, president of Yale, who had asked him his views on religion...:
As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and I think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble...." (Carl Van Doren. Benjamin Franklin. New York: The Viking Press, 1938, p. 777.)"
Next time do some research.
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Re: Mirrors
Tue, May 26, 2009 - 11:22 AM>But whose mind is fooling whose?<
As I have stated before - i have long been involved in magic and illusion. Close up sleight of hand is my preference.
It is not me who fools the spectator but they who fool themselves.
Humans are terrible observers and when they miss something they make up details to fill in the blanks. - that is the nature of the mind. -
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Re: Mirrors
Tue, May 26, 2009 - 11:30 AM"Humans are terrible observers and when they miss something they make up details to fill in the blanks. - that is the nature of the mind. "
This was my point about research. You can get all the research you want in the world but then you will find a way to make it fit to what you want it to be. -
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Re: Mirrors
Tue, May 26, 2009 - 11:39 AM>This was my point about research. You can get all the research you want in the world but then you will find a way to make it fit to what you want it to be.<
That is why the scientific method was developed. -
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Re: Mirrors
Tue, May 26, 2009 - 12:00 PMYou cannot develop a totally absolute statement about coffee and think that has any applicability to forming an absolute statement about anything you see in a mirror. -
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Re: Mirrors
Tue, May 26, 2009 - 12:23 PMYou can’t develop an absolute statement about coffee and you can't develop an absolute statement about mirrors
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Re: Mirrors
Tue, May 26, 2009 - 12:28 PM>So is Coffee good or bad for you? <
One thing for sure - you know how to throw around hyperbole. -
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Re: Mirrors
Tue, May 26, 2009 - 1:03 PMI can make an absolute statement about the existence of abnormal psychology, delusions, paranoia, and many other things. The comparison to coffee is stupid. -
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Re: Mirrors
Tue, May 26, 2009 - 1:33 PMNo! Only what you are not able to see is stupid, after all that is why you post on this tribe. You dont belive what any of us has to say but here you are telling us how stupid we are. If you were able to tell the truth, you would be able to admit you get off on putting people down. -
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Re: Mirrors
Tue, May 26, 2009 - 2:46 PMI haven't put anyone down. I have insulted no person, even if I have cast an opinion on an idea. And it amazes me that you think I would "get off on it," having only seen one such opinion.
So if the issue of respect is on the table, I'll ask you to answer the question I posed to you three times earlier in this thread. -
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Re: Mirrors
Tue, May 26, 2009 - 8:42 PMTell me about it. *sigh*
Hey Mickey-
I know you don't believe in much of this, but have you happened to have heard of anything on the subject, maybe something about why people used to practice covering mirrors at night. Even if it just seems to be a myth.... -
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Re: Mirrors
Wed, May 27, 2009 - 8:12 AMAgain not to speak for Mickey...........
For me it is not a belief it is a matter of evidence.
I joined because the word "research" is in the name of this tribe. What any of us believe has little to do with what is.
As to the subject of this thread there is a great deal of folklore and myth connected to mirrors. It is hard to know where to start. Most seem to stem from the idea that what is reflected is not the person but the soul or spirit.
In feng shui it is said mirrors reflect energy both good and bad. I always found it interesting that over paid feng shui consultants often claimed only the mirrors they provided would do the job. I also found it interesting that the mirrors they provided sometimes for hundreds of dollars were identical to mirrors I could buy for a few dollars in Chinatown.
For most of our history mirrors were beyond the means of most people so is it any wonder that to break one is considered bad luck? Or that the uneducated masses of the past would develop many superstitions associated with these wondrous devices?
But as to does any of this work? That is where research comes in. -
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Re: Mirrors
Wed, May 27, 2009 - 9:29 AMI also posted here because of the word research. I know that there are many myths, superstitions, and folklore associated with mirrors, which is precisely the information i'm asking for. I completely understand that you need evidence. As for myself, i have already been presented with it.
So, in the name of "research" thank you for your input Joe. I really do appreciate it. -
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Re: Mirrors
Wed, May 27, 2009 - 11:16 AMHave you done a google search on "covered mirrors?" -
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Re: Mirrors
Wed, May 27, 2009 - 12:02 PMI just did. Nothing really significant came up, i will try again though, i didn't look past the first page of results. One interesting thing came up though about a family that was murdered in their sleep, i have seen a show on this story, really tragic and sad, but the killer, for reasons unknown, covered all the mirrors in the house, strange, huh.
But ya, I have googled a lot of variations of the phrase and no luck. I will keep trying though. -
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Re: Mirrors
Wed, May 27, 2009 - 12:14 PMOK i spoke too soon..... just found this: www.associatedcontent.com/artic...d.html
interesting..... -
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Re: Mirrors
Wed, May 27, 2009 - 5:18 PM>I completely understand that you need evidence. As for myself, i have already been presented with it. <
Then please present it so that it may be examined. Evidence only counts if it can stand very strict scrutiny.
>OK i spoke too soon..... just found this: www.associatedcontent.com/artic...d.html
interesting..... <
Interesting yes but still just a collection of stories.
Here are some more:
www.csicop.org/superstiti...irrors.html
* To see your reflection in a mirror is to see your own soul, which is why a vampire, who are without a soul, have no reflection.
* If a couple first catch sight of each other in a mirror, they will have a happy marriage.
* If a mirror falls and breaks by itself, someone in the house will soon die.
* Any mirrors in a room where someone has recently died, must be covered so that the dead person's soul does not get trapped behind the glass. Superstition has it that the Devil invented mirrors for this very purpose.
* It is bad luck to see your face in a mirror when sitting by candlelight.
* Before mirrors, in ancient societies, if you caught sight of your reflection or dreamt of it, you would soon die.
* Someone seeing their reflection in a room where someone has recently died, will soon die themselves.
* Babies should not look into a mirror for the first year of their lives.
* Actors believe that it is bad luck to see their reflection while looking over the shoulder of another person.
* To see an image of her future husband, a woman is told to eat an apple while sitting in front of a mirror and then brush her hair. An image of the man will appear behind her shoulder.
And more:
www.buzzle.com/editorials...4-53904.asp
- Never see your face in a mirror by candlelight, it is unlucky to do so, (especially if you are not very good-looking and have a weak heart).
- If you stare into a mirror by candlelight you might see the spirit of a loved one who has passed away.
- Always cover a mirror during a thunderstorm as it is unlucky to see reflected lightning.
- Breaking uncolored glass in any form other than that of a mirror or a bottle is considered to be good omen.
- It is considered a bad omen to receive a mirror as a present. (now you know what presents to give to some really close friends!)
- If a mirror in the house falls and breaks on its own, someone in the house will die soon.
- A baby should never be shown its own reflection before it is a year old, else it will stutter or grow no bigger than it is or die before it turns one.
- Many families cover a mirror if someone dies, as they believe that the mirror will capture the dead person’s soul, thus preventing its entry into heaven. It is believed that the Devil invented mirrors for this purpose.
- And if someone sees their reflection in a room where someone has recently died, they will die soon too.
- It is said that if your soul wanders during the night, a mirror can capture it. Thus some people avoid having mirrors in the bedroom or cover them before sleeping.
- A bride should never see herself in a mirror while fully dressed just before the wedding.
- It is also said that mirrors should be hung high enough so that the tallest member of the house can see his or her head, else it will cause them headaches.
- Having a large number of mirrors in the home is considered lucky, this could be because mirrors are known to deflect evil and attract good.
- The mirror is also a symbol of money. A mirror besides the dining room and kitchen will see to it that you always have wealth and food in your house.
- Also, as seen in movies, vampires have no reflection. This is because it is said that when you see your image, you are in fact seeing your soul and vampires don’t have one.
And my favorite:
www.halloween-website.com/blood...ry.htm
Some good stories but........................ -
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Re: Mirrors
Wed, May 27, 2009 - 6:18 PMThank you for your information Joe!!! I very much appreciate it.
Also thank you for that definition on evidence, obviously, i can not present it to you or anyone else, or i would. Please don't misunderstand the reason i posted this subject, i'm not out to prove what happened to me. I am requesting any info that one has heard of, read of, etc. on the subject, which you have done beautifully.
Thank you again...
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Re: Mirrors
Wed, May 27, 2009 - 6:27 PM"- It is also said that mirrors should be hung high enough so that the tallest member of the house can see his or her head, else it will cause them headaches. "
LOL! That one is my favorite!!!! And, oh wow, i remember bloody mary.... from middle school slumber parties!!!
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Re: Mirrors
Thu, May 28, 2009 - 9:15 AMmirrors are... very... strange in that they cause us all to think... differently,
mirrors cause me to reflect
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Re: Mirrors
Thu, June 4, 2009 - 8:41 PMOne of my daughters has a full legnth mirror in her room. The other night she shut her TV off and got back into bed and in the dark saw a dark figure in the mirror. All three of my daughters have seen the shadow people in our house as I did when I was young but not in the mirrors. She said out loud to " Go away ". I guess she should cover her mirrror at night. Maybe shadow people get lonely to. LOL. -
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Re: Mirrors
Thu, June 4, 2009 - 8:47 PMYou haven't really read the rest of the thread, have you, Perry? -
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Re: Mirrors
Sat, June 6, 2009 - 6:06 PMI've read and respect yours, and anybody elses opinion thanx, Mickey. I don't feel you are putting anyone down by challenging them to think outside of the box that is their belief system. Skepticism is a healthy part of the human condition. I welcome it, I am not threatened by it. Hard evidence remains maddenly elusive for the average person to present for " the scientist ". As I said to you on the other thread these experiences everybody has committed to print here when collected and categorized may someday provide a more grand scale architecture of " just what is going on ". I recommend reading " Graham Hancock's " book " Supernatural ". He gives and excellent illustration of how our long running association with so called "Fairy Lore, UfO abductions, and therianthropic entities" all share remarkable architecture how these beings interrelate to us. The desire to abduct us, to procreate with us, to teach us. In his opinion all three are one and the same. The question remains then, like the experiences with mirrors people describe on this thread, what is truly happening to millions of people over the thousands of years that this has been going on. Imaginations? hallucinations? To some degree we are all suspect given our limited senses, but respectfully I tell you there is no way all seemingly amazing things we percieve are simply delusional. When I put a group of people into a trance in in my night school class in 1987 there was no doubt that I made that happen. When people on this thread tell me they see things, I believe them. I've had my world rocked a few times in the last 46 years and as a " science nerd " it has been a long evolution that has brought me to this wonderful sublime world in between science and metaphysics. I feel priveledged for it. Thanx. -
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Re: Mirrors
Sat, June 6, 2009 - 6:33 PMThank you for your post Perry... I know what your daughter is going through, it's unnerving..... at first i couldn't cover my mirror because of the way it was attached to my bed as a headboard, the sheet would keep coming down during the night so i would just have to dodge it with my eyes, then the peripheral vision thing..... Ever since i covered it it doesn't bother me anymore, i would suggest you do that for your daughter if she is afraid and having trouble sleeping at night.... It's funny, there truly isn't much i fear, and i thought i could react differently... but it's almost traumatic, ya know.....
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Re: Mirrors
Sat, July 4, 2009 - 10:49 PMOk I'm jealous of you all. I've actually tried to see things in the mirror and nothing has ever happened. I'm not afraid of that which exists in the dark shadows. I don't question it's existance, because i know that, that evil is there. But I'm more relaxed in the dark then I am in the light. I don't know why. I know that my faith is without question and my connection to God is complete. Maybe it's that why I know that I am protected and that negative force isn't allowed to reveal itself to me. I am very curious though and I would be thrilled if I saw something, anything. -
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Re: Mirrors
Sun, July 5, 2009 - 12:04 PMYou mean... what if I'm really delusional? -
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Re: Mirrors
Sun, July 5, 2009 - 2:12 PM>You mean... what if I'm really delusional? <
Or imaginative. -
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Re: Mirrors
Sun, July 5, 2009 - 10:29 PMhmmmm..... ya, sure..... I can imagine a lot of things... but i didn't imagine this. .. if you don't believe me, that's cool... get off my thread, because there really is no point going back and forth about if it really happened or not, unless your seeking some form of self gratification by attempting to prove me and others on this thread wrong.... -
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Re: Mirrors
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 12:39 AMI am open . I haved tried many times to talk to things in the dark. I've stood in front of mirrors and recited everything from Bloody Marry to "show yourself". I've cleared my mind and stared into mirrors for long stretches of time , waiting.
They won't show themselves to me
Maybe only certain people can see
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Re: Mirrors
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 1:27 AMMaybe.. IDK that it had anything to do with me or not. It hasn't happened to me lately, but then again i don't generally look into mirrors at night...a lot of the time, I don't know that they even noticed me or that they were trying to show themselves, although there were a few incidents when i felt that was exactly what was going on. But not in the way you may imagine.
It's funny... i was always the same way, when i was younger my friends and i would do countless things to try to "summon spirits" lol... but when this would happen it took me by surprise... there was very real pain... and confusion attached to these "beings" it was difficult to witness, not like what i would have imagined as a child... there was nothing confrontational about it, there was no battling of faiths.. I had no fear of losing any part of myself, etc. It was just.... they where so empty... it's difficult to articulate the emotion i felt.....not something I felt i could personally help with or do anything about, just witness... almost like watching someone dying.... not something i desire to feel again... -
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Re: Mirrors
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 2:18 AMI've watched someone die up close and I've kept someone from dying (CPR). I can understand that urge of feeling powerless,but also the feeling of being truely empowered. Maybe you felt like you couldn't do anything about it because you simply didn't know what to do.
Maybe seeing it(them) again is exactly what you need -
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Re: Mirrors
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 11:28 AMPossibly Zayne, the times that they saw me, I'm sure I could have said something, but I'm not sure that it would have done anything.... they never tried to speak or otherwise communicate... It was always like " here I am" and that was it.. I honestly don't think they knew they were dead... maybe if i just said... "hey, your dead" that could help.... There were only a few that would look at me... most of the time they never saw me they would just be walking by in the hallway or living room, or sometimes bedroom (this is where my mirror faced) completely oblivious...Once, there was a little boy standing right in my doorway staring straight at me, i could tell he wanted to say something or wanted me to do something...his eyes were glowing.. thought that was strange.. he was very intense and more intimate than the rest, the way he was looking at me, he was a lot closer than the others as well... I rubbed my eyes... (BECAUSE... AGAIN I THOUGHT I MAY HAVE BEEN IMAGINING THINGS..) when I opened them again he was still there, then I turned around and looked again without the mirror, nothing.... when I looked again in the mirror he was gone.... I really wished i had said something to him, i wish I could have helped him...
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Re: Mirrors
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 6:22 AM>hmmmm..... ya, sure..... I can imagine a lot of things... but i didn't imagine this. .. if you don't believe me, that's cool... get off my thread, because there really is no point going back and forth about if it really happened or not, unless your seeking some form of self gratification by attempting to prove me and others on this thread wrong....<
I have said nothing to elicit this kind of response. All I have suggested is that there are different places to look than the ones you have been pursuing.
If you do seek the truth then you must look for it even if it lies in a place you do not wish to find it. -
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Re: Mirrors
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 11:01 AMPlaces such as what Joe? Enlighten me... My imagination? When is the las time that you imagined someone walking across your room? Read my previous posts where I have addressed this "theory" several times already....
"If you do seek the truth then you must look for it even if it lies in a place you do not wish to find it. "
I'm far more of aware of this fact than i'm sure you would even care to know...... maybe it is you who should take your own advice..........
"I have said nothing to elicit this kind of response. All I have suggested is that there are different places to look than the ones you have been pursuing. "
Sure you have....read the rest of this thread...
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Re: Mirrors
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 11:17 AMback-steppin' there Joe?
From the manner in which Stacy has explored her experience of this with everyone, by suggesting she's "imaginative" you're calling her a liar
but you're pulling the "nice card". Might as well be direct about it -
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Re: Mirrors
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 11:48 AMBelief in a thing is a good way to ask for dogmatic behaviors. I'm certainly guilty of that.
I ask for the suspension of belief to open up the door to other possibilities. There's nothing wrong with entertaining the possibility that it may be a good imagination at play with these kinds of phenomenon. It doesn't demean anyone to suggest this. On the contrary, vetting the possibilities brings us closer to the truth, but we must equilaterally entertain all the possibilities. Historically speaking, mirrors are merely polished surfaces, or paint on glass. -
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Re: Mirrors
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 12:09 PMIf you pay attention closely... you will see that I have entertained all possibilities... what else is there that i have "left out" Mickey? Please, help me out here... I think it's interesting how you want to bring up; "we must equilaterally entertain all the possibilities" and then say that
"mirrors are merely polished surfaces, or paint on glass" hmmmmmmm ....... if we are to entertain ALL possibilities... they why isn't my experience valid? Why MUST it be imaginative... Because it hasn't been scientifically proven....yet? If your trying to imply that i'm not being open to all possibilities then please READ THE REST OF THE THREAD! And, I never felt "demeaned" just, honestly, a little impatient with people who insist on being presented with "evidence" of my experience.... that is not why i posted here... if I wanted to debate science vs. the afterlife or the like I would have posted this on an a different tribe. I was very clear in what I was looking for with my original post.... yes, vetting the possibilities brings us closer to the truth, but who's truth are you after? Your truth, because my truth has been posted several times...
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Re: Mirrors
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 12:00 PM>by suggesting she's "imaginative" you're calling her a liar
but you're pulling the "nice card". Might as well be direct about it <
To quote Sherman Potter (M*A*S*H) "hours Puckey"
The title of this tribe is "Paranormal Research" not "Paranormal Speculation".
I have seen for myself how powerful the human imagination can be. Those who succumb to what they imagine are not lying but may well be mistaken. It is part of the human condition that once we accept something to be true it is very difficult to un- accept.
An example I have used oft times before is that in my career I have been in literally dozens of theatres. Almost all of them purported to have a resident ghost with myriad stories to go with why and how this particular ghost chose to inhabit this particular theatre.
I can not say for sure that there were no ghosts in any of these places.
For myself I never experienced a ghost. I have experienced spooky sounds and sights. An empty theatre is full of odd noises and shadows. But none that did not prove to have a simple explanation on further examination.
It should also be noted that those who chose to go with the ghostly explanation rarely sought out an alternate explanation.
The stories of how and why also failed to stand up to scrutiny when I was able to research the roots of the story.
If this tribe is about research then it is necessary to seek out all possible explanations. If you don't then your conclusions have no value.
In the end we must apply Occams Razor to see what the evedence best supports.
As far as the "nice card" - what do you find so offensive about trying to be reasonable? -
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Re: Mirrors
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 12:01 PM>To quote Sherman Potter (M*A*S*H) "hours Puckey" <
Sorry - SP
To quote Sherman Potter (M*A*S*H) "horse Puckey"
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Re: Mirrors
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 12:35 PM"The title of this tribe is "Paranormal Research" not "Paranormal Speculation". "
Read the description of this tribe again Joe... the one written by Jay... under that description my post is highly appropriate.... -
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Re: Mirrors
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 1:38 PMopp's sorry... i meant to type: sherman potter is not real :)
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Re: Mirrors
Fri, July 10, 2009 - 4:46 AMJoe, I follow what you're saying and I agree with you entirely that when investigating any phenomenon you have to apply reason and rule out all things obvious or identifiable.
It is difficult to apply logic to the sight of people walking by in a mirror that aren't perceivable in the area otherwise! Malfunctioning lights and/or numerous other variables would be ruled out, I think, as not plausibly causing the sight of a little boy staring directly at you in a reflection of which there is no tangible entity to create it
As far as her potentially "imagining" of all of this, in all this detail, she is either experiencing something extraordinary that she or anybody else it seems cannot explain rationally, she is weaving an elaborate fairy tale just to have something to do, or she's an absolute nut-job in diar need of intensive psychotherapy. Don't believe its the latter of the 2,but I don't know her. :-)
"nice card" and being "reasonable"
Offended by reason? hardly. Put off by short-shrift toss-outs like "or imaginative",implying that a diligent and reasoning individual has some logic issues? absolutely
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Re: Mirrors
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 11:49 AM< get off my thread >
What, is this fox news? -
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Re: Mirrors
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 12:12 PMawwww... your so clever Mickey..... unfortunatley though, this quote has nothing to do with "concealing" or "influencing" anything or anyone... had that been the case I would have said something far earlier in the thread.... ;) -
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Re: Mirrors
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 12:21 PMIf you or any others have ANY questions for me AT ALL, please... just ask. I have no problem at all with that, in fact I invite it... so maybe instead of implying that i'm imaging things... you could ask me.. "hey, have you considered ___?" It's called being polite, and respectful of another's personal experience.... i'm sure you or my friend Joe there aren't beyond politeness..... -
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Re: Mirrors
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 5:24 PMI thought I was being quite polite - within the spirit of debate. Believe me it will be quite clear if I become nasty. -
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Re: Mirrors
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 9:47 PMoooohhhh.... Is that a threat I detect Joe? Or am I just imagining things? ;) -
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Re: Mirrors
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 1:05 PMSorry, there should have been a big smiley there. Like this: :-D
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Re: Mirrors
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 4:58 PM"Wishful thinking is more like it."
?????? I wish that Joe is threatening me? Really? -
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Re: Mirrors
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 8:40 PMWell, then you'd have something real to complain about. -
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Re: Mirrors
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 10:32 PMhhhmmmmm..... oh, that's right... because it's all imaginary? Look Mickey, i'm not really sure that the point is now... like I said before,
"If you or any others have ANY questions for me AT ALL, please... just ask. I have no problem at all with that, in fact I invite it... so maybe instead of implying that i'm imaging things... you could ask me.. "hey, have you considered ___?"
I do genuinely look forward to it!
Thanks! ;-) -
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Re: Mirrors
Wed, July 8, 2009 - 6:58 AMLook - all I was suggesting is that imagination is at least as viable an explanation as anything else that has been put forth here.
This is not as a put down now to call any ones honesty into question.
On the - contrary we tend to forget just how powerful the human imagination is.
As I have said before I am a magician. I no longer perform professionally but I do have a lifetime of studying magic.
There is not a single trick that I or any magician could make work if we could not count on the imagination of our audience. By the way - grifters also depend on the mark using their own imagination.
We go to movies and theatrical performances all the time and get swept up in the story.
Do you actually believe that what just happened to Hamlet on that stage is real? No!
But it can feel real.
Why? Because each member of the audience gets involved by using their imagination.
So to say it can't possibly be your imagination is to give yourself far to little credit.
In the end we still have to ask - What happens when we apply Occam's Razor? -
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Re: Mirrors
Thu, July 9, 2009 - 1:23 PMhhmmmm... Don't get me wrong Joe. I do fully appreciate your experience with fooling the human imagination... Magic is a wondrous thing proving without a doubt the tricks that our mind can play on us. I completely agree that the imagination is a powerful part of each of us... but where is the line drawn? Between the imagination and "reality", that is... how do I know that you are really another human being at a computer somewhere in the world responding to my inquisitions on the human imagination? Or is this also, my mind playing tricks on me?
Obviously, if we were to apply Occams Razor to my situation the simplest answer would be that I hallucinated, because to merely say i imagined it would be putting innaccruratly light.
Remember when you were a kid and it was dark in your room, and maybe that night you threw your jacket over you desk chair and forgot about it.... then, there you are at 10 pm, on the verge of a heart attack because you swear it's a monster, or whatever other terrifying animal your imagination can come up with? Then suddenly a car drives by your window and light flashes through and you see your jacket there instead.... and your relieved and feeling silly, that your imagination got away with you, yet again! Silly you!
That is not what happened to me.
To apply imagination is putting it FAR to lightly, even with all the power that the imagination can possess.... I would have had to have been delusional, to describe it accurately, and I can tell you I was not delusional (which you, of course, are under no obligation to believe, being that you don't know me)... so applying Occams Razor in this situation is subjective because while it may be easier or simpler for YOU to explain everything without assuming the metaphysical baggage, I however must. To apply and buy Occam's Razor, personally, in this situation, I would be deluding myself... for the sake of a theory that I find inapplicable to my personal situation.
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Re: Mirrors
Thu, July 9, 2009 - 3:07 PMOccam's Razor does not require the simplest explanation - it requires the explanation that makes the least number of unsupported assumptions to reach a conclusion.
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Re: Mirrors
Thu, July 9, 2009 - 5:50 PMSo - in the course of this thread I have been accused of attitudes and statements that I have simply not made.
For that reason I will share this with the tribe. It was posted on the Evolution/Creation Debate tribe and I think it is very much on point for this thread and other threads in this tribe.
www.youtube.com/watch
I hope you enjoy it. -
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Re: Mirrors
Thu, July 9, 2009 - 7:09 PMInteresting Joe, kinda common sense, but interesting. Something doesn't make sense though...Who is it directed at? I have never called you narrow minded, or made any statements about you besides seeking self gratification, which is what was apparent at the time, but maybe I misunderstood your intention, it happens ... I also have no desire at all for you to "believe" me, and have stated several times that I welcome ANY suggestions, and STILL DO... -
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Re: Mirrors
Thu, July 9, 2009 - 7:11 PMThe only reason that I said anything at all about the imagination comment is because it had already come up several times, and I had already answered it several times, along with sharing that I have already considered it myself countless times. This can become tiresome... wouldn't you agree? -
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Re: Mirrors
Thu, July 9, 2009 - 11:00 PMAnd I guess I should have put a little smiley behind my last post. I was shooting for levity. I failed.
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